This site is posted as a warning to colleagues, friends, and anyone else considering renting an apartment in Paris. It describes our recent unfortunate experience with the individual and company listed. The bottom line is that we lost 2300 Euros we had paid as advance rent for an apartment we could not use when we arrived. In addition we suffered the loss of time, the inconvenience, and the upset of having to scramble to find immediate alternative housing for two weeks. Our subsequent housing was more expensive and less comfortable then the originally promised apartment.
A brief summary of the experience as we experienced it is presented below with a complete email archive so that potential clients can draw their own conclusions from the attitudes and actions of Paul Bernie, Paristay, and the other individuals involved.
Technical note: The historical copies of the web pages referred to which showed features that proved to be nonfunctional were originally saved in the Safari webarchive format. As several readers of these Web pages have pointed out, these files are not readable on many machines. I therefore also include pdf files.
We filled out an application at an agency called Paristay
and received a reply from
Paul Bernie suggesting two locations, one of which appeared to be an
ideal choice: an apartment at 10 rue Bailluel in the first
Arrondissement. The Paristay web page for this apartment as it appeared
on 16 February 2006 is shown in
pdf. The pages claim the apartment
possessed all of the essential items for us. The apartment description on
the website began with
"General apartment description: - 1890 Building, 4 floor, with lift, entry code security system, with interphone, 2 Bedrooms Apt, furnished, 66 square meters / 660 sqft, high security lock on front door, "
showing at the top of the list that the apartment possessed two things of significant importance to us, an elevator (since the apartment was on the fourth floor, that is, five floors above the ground floor) and security. This first grouping of items in the description ends with "high security lock on the front door," which was also quite important to us.
Based on this description we informed Bernie that we wished to rent the apartment and he wrote back that the agency contract was being sent. The email exchanges after that were with both Bernie and other individuals working at Paristay. The details can be found in the email, but roughly speaking we were asked to pay a rent advance of 2300 Euros (of a total of 2400 Euros) for two weeks along with an agency fee of 532 Euros to Paristay. The remainder of the rent along with other fees were to be paid on arrival. I arranged for bank transfers of the required funds to a bank account I was told was the apartment owner's (the rent) and to Paristay (the agency fee).
Most of the exchanges following that time up until our arrival dealt with the possibility of checking in a day early (which we did not do) and making the arrangements for meeting someone from Paristay on our arrival. The various Paristay employees seemed to share email addresses, so the email is not always from the person named in the email address. In particular, following the 2 February email from Bernie, the subsequent email from email@example.com was from Carrie Anglade.
We arrived on the arranged day of 30 April 2006 at 10 rue Bailleul somewhat early. We found the front door wide open and the security lock nonfunctional, so we did not need the entry code provided to us in the email. We found the lobby a mess, with clear evidence of construction going on. We found the elevator completely nonfunctional. Given my wife's bad knees and asthma, there is no way should could have mounted five flights to get to the apartment. I could do it without our considerable luggage (we had packed for five weeks in Turkey and France), but I would have been hard pressed to lug the luggage up. I am fairly good shape for 62, but it had never occurred to us that the elevator would be nonfunctioning. While waiting for the Paristay agent, we chatted with residents arriving and leaving. They complained that the elevator had not been working for weeks and they saw no evidence of its being fixed.
The Paristay agent (Carrie) arrived and expressed surprise at the broken elevator. She pointed out that there was no guarantee that the advertised elevator would work, but there was no way that my wife could climb five flights. She was unable to contact the owner to find out when the elevator would be fixed, so we went with her to the office of Paristay. There we discussed the problem with the director of Paristay, Andre Brue. He assured us he had been unaware of the broken elevator and e assisted us in finding an alternative apartment. We found an apartment in the Citadines Apart'hotel on Rue Richelieu. It was more expensive (3368 Euros) and smaller, but the location was good and we could put up or daughter and grandson on a convertible sofa. The people at Citadines were helpful and sympathetic to our plight of having no place to stay and family arriving the next day.
Andre promised the return of the agency fee of 532 Euros the following week, which was done. He also promised to contact the owner to see about the reimbursement of the rent, which he thought might take a month to obtain. When I picked up the 532 Euros at Paristay he confirmed that the rent reimbursement was in the works. Had the reimbursement gone through, I would have accepted the loss of the 1000 Euros in excess rent, the time, and the promised luxury apartment as an unfortunate mishap of travel.
We returned home on 20 May and a week later I contacted Andre one
week later to remind him that the month was nearly up and I had received
no word from the owner. I asked him to check with the owner. His reply
of 30 May said that Paul Bernie had told Paristay that he would do what
was necessary, gave me a new email for him, and told me I should contact
him. I did not at first realize that this was the same Paul Bernie that
had been our first contact at Paristay, and I inferred from the email
that Paul Bernie was in fact the owner of 10 rue Bailleul. I forwarded
Andre's note to Berne asking for information about the status of the
reimbursement. Bernie replied stating that Andre had never telephoned
him or emailed him regarding us and the apartment and that he had
informed Paristay that the elevator was not working in April. He also
said that we should see the Internet site to see a statement to the
effect that the elevator was not working in April. Indeed by the time we
returned home in late May, the Internet site had been changed:
to insert a warning that the
elevator was not working. To our knowledge, no such change was made
prior to our informing Paristay that the lift was broken on the day we
arrived on 30 April. Furthermore, although Bernie had been the first
Paristay agent with whom we had contact and was now clearly involved
with the apartment as owner or agent (it was not clear to me which), he
had never sent me email warning me of the broken elevator so that we
could make alternative arrangements. He states that the owner does not
have responsibility for the broken elevator and placed the full blame on
Andre. He refers to himself as the "owners representative" rather than
the owner himself. He offered to make a "gesture" of returning some
unspecified amount of the 2300 Euros, but clearly stated he put full
responsibility on Paristay. In a subsequent email he points out that the
contract had no statement guaranteeing that the elevator would work (it
also does not guarantee specifically that the toilets work or that the
rug is clean and the furniture functional etc), nor had we made special
stipulation about "special needs" regarding the difficulty of climbing
five flights of stairs. My counter was that the contract did make a very
specific stipulation to the effect that
``Article 8: Obligations du Bailleur begins with - a delivrer au locataire le logement en bon etat d'usage et de reparation ainsi que les equipements mentionnes au present contrat en bon etat de fonctionnement''
but the apartment was clearly
So the bottom line is that Mr Bernie refuses reimbursement and blames Andre of Paristay, whom he says has all the blame and responsibility. On the other hand, Mr Bernie has our 2300 Euros and clearly shares any blame for not informing us of the problem. His attitude toward the contractual arrangements should be heeded by anyone seeking to do business with him, if any possible problem is not explicitly included in the contract he will deny any responsibility for it. It is also strange that he insists that it is the agency's responsibility to maintain the apartment, yet it would appear that he was that agent prior to his departure from Paristay and remains the agent of the owner of the apartment still.
We are pursuing this issue with the hope of sparing future potential renters the financial loss and upset that we suffered. We spoke with an excellent Paris lawyer who in turn spoke to the lawyers of Bernie and Brue, but they stuck to their mutual blame and denial of responsibility and it would have been too costly to pursue the matter long distance in court. We continue to investigate avenues of formal complaints to public and private organizations. Regardless of our particular case, I believe it might be of assistance to provide the story and the supporting emails to anyone considering apartment rentals in Paris and to warn them of the attitudes and loopholes they are likely to encouter..
As a final note, as on 4 June both Bernie and Andre were listed as the director and manager of another company, Apartment Rentals Paris, which showed the Web page at http://www.apartment-rentals-paris.com on 4 June 2006. Following my email to Bernie point this out as evidence that the two remained in communication, both names (and any other contact information) were removed from the Web page, which on on 6 June looked like this in webarchive and pdf. This suggests to me that the claimed hostility between the two was disingenuous.
I also note the apartment is also being shown on the LODGIS Website http://vacation.lodgis.com/. The view on 7 June of the page http://vacation.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/3016288-rue-Bailleul-Apartment/?sid=5d3f5a7e89b7d1449ecb076468e49cd4 is shown in webarchive and pdf , where it is listed as No. 3016288 - 2 bedrooms Apartment.
Robert M. Gray
Email exchanges between the Grays and Paristay and associates. Duplicate copies included in responding messages are not repeated for brevity. ============================= From: Paristay.comWith the final email above I gave up as it was clear I was wasting my time and that Mr. Bernie would continue to deny any responsibility whatsoever and to keep our 2300 Euros for the apartment we were never even able to see.
Date: January 31, 2006 12:27:37 PM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Paristay.com Request 11616 Thank you for sending us a reservation form for an apartment. We will get back to you as soon as possible. The Paristay.com Team. As a reminder, here is your request : Type : 1 Bedroom Couple(s) : 1 Single(s) : 0 Chlid(ren) : 0 (age : ) Max budget : 1200 per month Arrival : 30/04/2006 Departure : 14/05/2006 Name : GRAY Robert Tel : 1 650 747-0579 Email : email@example.com From : Occupation : Professor Purpose of your location : Lecturing at L\'Ecole Centrale Paris Special Request : Would prefer something where we could entertain overnight visitors. Friends will be traveling through Paris while we are in residence and we would like to be able to put them up for three days without being overcrowded should they decide to stay with us. ======== On Feb 1, 2006, at 12:47 AM, Paristay.com wrote: Dear GRAY Robert, Thank you very much for your request on www.paristay.com . Your request was for: Apartment type : 1 Bedroom # of couples : 1 # of singles: 0 # of children : 0 Rent : 1200 per month Arrival date : 2006-04-30 Departure date : 2006-05-14 or Name : GRAY Robert Tel : 1 650 747-0579 email : firstname.lastname@example.org Country : Special request : Would prefer something where we could entertain overnight visitors. Friends will be traveling through Paris while we are in residence and we would like to be able to put them up for three days without being overcrowded should they decide to stay with us. We can offer you this selection of apartment(s), matching your criteria as best as we can. You can view photographs and details of the apartment(s) by clicking on the link(s) below : Chevalier St George Bailleul bailleul would be great or chevalier If you are interested in one of our rentals, we encourage you to reply ASAP, as our apartments rent out very quickly. Best regards, Paul BERNIE www.paristay.com Authentic apartments in the heart of Paris phone : 00 33 (0)6 62 77 69 69 fax : 00 33 (0)1 53 01 67 16 ======= From: email@example.com Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 Date: February 1, 2006 10:35:59 AM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Dear M Bernie, We would like to book the Bailleul apartment for our stay, arriving April 30, departing May 14, 2006. Thank you. Mrs. Robert M. Gray =========== From: Resa Paristay Date: February 2, 2006 1:40:40 AM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Paristay.com Apt Bailleul 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 AFF#1455 Dear Mr Robert GRAY, THANKS FOR CHOOSING PARISTAY Ref: Your reservation (apart Bailleul), Thank you for the return of the agency agreement TODAY PLEASE and the neccessary documents relating to the reservation procedure. http://www.paristay.com/get.php?doc=cta&link=ef8e3c0518b2fd9fbf9688fa65028893 CLEANING FEE 80 EUROS THE CLEANER WILL NEED TO ARRIVE 9 AM ON MAY 14TH CHECK OUT BY 10 AM AS THERE IS AN ARRIVAL Many thanks in advance. Kind regards Paul Bernie 00 33 (0)6 62 77 69 69 www.paristay.com Authentic apartments in the heart of Paris.. =========== On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:46 AM, email@example.com wrote: hello we sent agency contract check out early on 14 may hope thats ok as there is an arrival that day if you need to leave bags we will sort out a solution at the office next door best regards PAUL =============== From: "JUAN-PABLO CASTRO VASQUEZ" Date: February 7, 2006 10:09:21 AM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Subject: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hello Mr. Robert GRAY, CC: Paum BERNIE Please find here attached a copy of the contract lease of the apartment situated at 10, rue Bailleul, 75001 PARIS that you are renting. Please send us a copy signed at the end (where it says "locataire (tenant") and initialize each page. TO BLOCK THE APARTMENT, YOU WILL NEED TO TRANSFER BEFORE NEXT FEBRUARY THE 10th THE PAYMENTS FOR: - Rent advance of 2300 euros to the owner's bank account net of all bank charges (indicated at the end of the contract lease); you will need to bring on arrival the 100 euros for the balance due; - Agency fees of 532 euros to Paristay bank account (already sent). PLEASE NOTICE THAT YOU HAVE TO TRANSFER THE RENT TO THE OWNER'S BANK ACCOUNT INDICATED AT THE END OF THE CONTRACT LEASE. Please send us the copy of the wire bank transfer by fax at 00 33 1 53 01 67 16. You will need to bring on arrival the security deposit of 1000 euros (in euros or traveller's cheques) and the check-out cleaning fee of 80 euros. Please advise time arrival to Paris airport to organize the check-in at the apartment. Best regards Juan Pablo CASTRO VASQUEZ Mobile: 00 33 (0)6 20 95 86 11 ======== From: email@example.com Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Date: February 9, 2006 8:49:55 AM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com I regret that we have been traveling and just received this email on Thursday February 9th. We will proceed as rapidly as we are able to but are somewhat dismayed at the tone exigent of your messages. Mrs. Robert M. Gray ======================== From: "JUAN-PABLO CASTRO VASQUEZ" Date: February 9, 2006 10:09:26 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hello Robert M. Gray, We totally understand that you have been away sorry if the e mail sounds a bit strict the owners have a none exclusive contract so we do our best to make sure everything goes smoothly and they are reassured all is on the way thanks for your understanding all the best PAUL ====================== From: email@example.com Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 Date: February 16, 2006 5:23:28 PM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Paul, Would it be possible to add an additional day at the beginning of our stay at Bailleul apartment? We would like to alter our reservation/lease to arrive on Saturday April 29, departing as planned on May 14. Please advise ASAP. Best regards, Arlene Gray (Mrs. Robert M. Gray) =================================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Date: February 17, 2006 1:26:57 PM PST To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org I sent an email yesterday to your office to request our stay include one additional day at the start of our stay. We would like to arrive on Saturday April 29. Our current lease begins the following day, April 30th. Can you accommodate this request. Please advise ASAP. Mrs. Robert M. Gray. ======================================= From: email@example.com Subject: Fwd: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Date: February 18, 2006 2:24:40 PM PST To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org Since we have not received a reply to either inquiry to Paristay regarding adding an additional day to our stay, and we are leaving for Australia/New Zealand, I have booked a hotel room in Paris for the 29th of April. We would like to move into the apartment at 11 am on Sunday the 30th of April. We will check our email periodically for your confirmation of our meeting time with the owner of the Bailleul apartment on Sunday April 30, 2006. ================== From: email@example.com Date: February 19, 2006 6:55:49 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 This is fine, but please be advised that you will owe an extra 171Euro. The owner is on vacation, so it will take a few days before I know how he would like you to pay the extra night. I will let you know. Carrie Anglade ====================================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: February 19, 2006 6:58:25 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Fwd: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 Sorry for the delay. Paul has sent a contract to someone for the 29th. They are past the 48 hour deadline, so it should be ok for you to have the extra ngiht. Is it too late to cancel the hotel? Please advise. If so, we will keep the booking as is. Regards, Carrie ====================== From: Arlene Gray Date: February 19, 2006 8:00:47 AM PST To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 Thank you very much Carrie but the hotel is non refundable so we will not be needing the extra day at Ballieul. thanks again, Arlene Gray ====================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: February 19, 2006 1:33:22 PM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 Thank you for letting me know so quicky. Once again, I am sorry for the delay! Regards, Carrie Anglade ======================= From: "JUAN-PABLO CASTRO VASQUEZ" Date: February 20, 2006 4:06:57 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Reply-To: email@example.com I received another e-mail from you saying that this was not possible as the hotel you reserved was non refundable. This is correct, right? Please advise. Regards, Carrie Anglade ======================== Carrie, Could you please see that our arrival at the apartment is confirmed for 11 am on Sunday the 30th of April? We will check our email periodically for your confirmation of our meeting time with the owner of the Bailleul apartment on Sunday April 30, 2006. Many thanks, Arlene Gray =================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: February 21, 2006 8:03:17 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Paristay.com rental 30/04/06 to 14/05/06 DDE#11616 It's confrmed! I've noted it in our books. Have a nice trip. Regards, Carrie Anglade ======================== To avoid confusion, we will be staying at the Hilton Hotel, 18 Avenue de Suffren on the 29th of April and will not need an extra day at the apartment. We would like to arrive at the apartment around 11am on Sunday the 30th of April. Will this be possible? Regards, Arlene Gray =========================== From: "JUAN-PABLO CASTRO VASQUEZ" Date: February 22, 2006 1:37:39 AM PST To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Reply-To: email@example.com Dear Arlene, I will note it in our books that you will be there at 11. Juan Pablo will be there to meet you and let you in. Just a reminder that there is a 50Euro supplement for Sunday arrivals as written in your contract. Best regards, Carrie Anglade ============================ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Date: April 8, 2006 2:41:01 PM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org We are unable to locate a contractual agreement to pay an additional 50 Euros for a Sunday arrival in the contract you sent us. Arlene Gray =========================== From: "JUAN-PABLO CASTRO VASQUEZ" Date: April 10, 2006 1:35:12 AM PDT To: "Arlene Gray" Cc: email@example.com Subject: Re: Apart. Bailleul Contract Lease from April 30th to May 14th 2006 Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hello Mrs. GRAY, The general comissions rates of our website establish that any arrival or departure in outside working hours will be charged with an extra fee of 50 Euro. Please notice that in the home page of our website, the link "commission rates" establishes: "Supplement: A 50 euro supplement is payable by the tenant to the owner on arrival for any check in and check out that is outside normal working hours : - Any early arrival or departure before 9 am - Any late arrival or departure after 6 pm - A Sunday arrival or departure" Otherwise, as you are arriving to Paris on saturday, we could make the check-in on saturday morning. AS MY COLLEAGUE CARRIE ANGLADE WILL BE IN CHARGE OF YOUR CHECK-IN, PLEASE CONTACT HER DIRECTLY AT email@example.com. Please advise as soon as you can your decision. Best regards. J.-P. CASTRO VASQUEZ. ================================= From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Bailliul apartment Sunday April 30, 2006 arrival Date: April 10, 2006 11:01:04 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org I have been instructed by J.-P. CASTRO VASQUEZ to contact you verifying our 11 am arrival at the above apartment on Sunday the 30th of April and our acknowledgement of a supplimental fee of 50 Euros due on arrival. Mrs. Robert M. Gray ===================== From: email@example.com Subject: Saturday check in? Date: April 10, 2006 11:20:38 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Carrie, Having reread the email from M. Castro Vasquez, I would like to revoke my earlier message and arrange for the Saturday check in if that is possible without incurring further charges, since we will not move into the apartment until Sunday morning. I find M. CASTRO VASQUEZ message to be unclear. We had attempted for several days (between trips) to arrange our stay to commence on Saturday and finally gave up when we could not get a response from Paristay and booked a non-refundable room at the Hilton Paris, 18 rue Suffren. After I had again contacted your agency stating we had made other arrangements that could not be changed, I finally received a reply. At that time no mention was made of the possibility of checking in on Saturday without paying rent for that day. We will indeed be in Paris by Saturday afternoon so formalities regarding the rental could take place on the 29th of April but we do not wish to be charged additional rents for accommodations we do not require. Please advise. Thank you. J'espere que c'est clair. Amicalment, Arlene Gray ============== From: "Carrie Anglade" Date: April 11, 2006 2:09:52 AM PDT To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Saturday check in? Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Dear Arlene, Sorry about all the confusion! JP's English is sometimes unclear. It would not be free to stay the extra night -you just wouldn't pay the 50Euro supplement. He just didn't realise that when he was on vacation, we tried to arrange the extra night for you without success! Once again I'm sorry that you reserved the hotel before I could get back to you for the Saturday night. Shall we stick to the plan and meet on Sunday at 11? Best regards, Carrie Anglade ================================== From: Arlene Gray Date: April 11, 2006 5:19:33 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: "Robert M. Gray" Subject: Re: Saturday check in? Sunday at 11 then. Regards, Arlene Gray ========================== From: "Carrie Anglade" Date: April 11, 2006 2:03:07 AM PDT To: "Arlene Gray" Subject: Re: Bailliul apartment Sunday April 30, 2006 arrival Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Thank you for your confirmation. iw ill meet you outside the building. Please call me at 06 50 69 77 89 if you have any delays! Best Regards, Carrie Anglade ============================= From: gray@ee.Stanford.EDU Subject: 4eme essai Date: May 5, 2006 3:18:23 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org Reply-To: email@example.com Je viens de decouvrir que la securite de l'ecole centrale reseau m'a empeche d'envoye de email. Alors voila la derniere message que je vous ai envoye, envoye par un autre compte a stanford. bob ------------------------ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: try again Date: May 5, 2006 2:32:10 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, gray@ee.Stanford.EDU Dear Andre My previous two emails to you seem to have vanished, so I am trying again. If you received one or both, apologies for the repetition (I did not receive the copies, so I suspect you did not receive the original). 1) Thanks for the flowers. 2) The new apartment has worked out fine. Although more expensive and, I suspect, smaller than the original, the location is great. We have a balcony overlooking Place A Malraux and it is very convenient for my wife and I am close to the RER. It turns out that L'Ecole Centrale has a deal with Citadines for a < > so they gave me a reduced price (about 10%) starting yesterday. 3) Cary had originally said we could get the refund for the agency fee in cash this week. Would it be possible to drop by your office (or somewhere else) or have you leave it with the hotel? Below are my bank coordinates for the rent reimbursement: < > Thanks, Bob =============================== From: email@example.com Subject: Remboursement Date: May 2, 2006 6:17:20 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org Dear Andre: I am writing to provide you with my bank coordinates for the remboursement of the rent and agency fees for the 10 Bailliule apartment which was unacceptable because of the nonfunctioning elevator. Please let me know by email when the transfers have been made. Thank you for your help finding the Citadines apartment. Although more expensive and smaller than the apartment would have been, the location is outstanding and I think they gave us the best apartment in the building. It has a balcony which looks out on la Place A Malraux. My wife is near the Louvre, and I am near the RER B line. Please let me know if any more information is needed and the approximate timing of the reimbursement. Robert M. Gray Addresse: 381 Woodland Vista P.O. Box 160 La Honda, CA 94020 USA Bank Coordinates: < > ============================= From: email@example.com Subject: Thanks & info Date: May 4, 2006 3:31:40 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Dear Andre: Thanks for the flowers and the card. The Citadines apartment is more expensive and likely smaller than the original apartment, but the location is excellent and the view outstanding The apartment looks out on Place A Malraux and has a balcony. Our daughter and grandson arrived on Tuesday and are recovering from jet lag. It is a bit of a squeeze, but all four of us are in the one apartment. Cary had sad that we could get the agency refund quickly and in cash (Euros), which would be a big help. One of us could stop by and pick it up if you let us know when and where. I am L'Ecole Centrale on weekdays, but I could come by on my way to work or returning. My bank coordinates for the rent reimbursement are < > Bob From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: try again Date: May 5, 2006 2:32:10 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com Dear Andre My previous two emails to you seem to have vanished, so I am trying again. If you received one or both, apologies for the repetition (I did not receive the copies, so I suspect you did not receive the original). 1) Thanks for the flowers. 2) The new apartment has worked out fine. Although more expensive and, I suspect, smaller than the original, the location is great. We have a balcony overlooking Place A Malraux and it is very convenient for my wife and I am close to the RER. It turns out that L'Ecole Centrale has a deal with Citadines for a < > so they gave me a reduced price (about 10%) starting yesterday. 3) Cary had originally said we could get the refund for the agency fee in cash this week. Would it be possible to drop by your office (or somewhere else) or have you leave it with the hotel? Below are my bank coordinates for the rent reimbursement: < > Thanks, Bob ============================= From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: 5eme essai Date: May 9, 2006 10:27:32 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org Dear Andre: I am trying again to contact you. Work has kept my busy and Lolly has been quite sick since our daughter left. We leave Paris on Sunday, and I would very much like to know what the status of the reimbursements is before we leave Paris. I would very much appreciate a reply. Bob Gray ==================== From: email@example.com Subject: RE: 5eme essai Date: May 9, 2006 10:35:33 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Bob, Sorry but we did not work yesterday (free days in France) Could you phone me at 06 63 78 95 95 please? Or give me your tel in Paris ? Call me anytime even late, you are welcome .. Hope Arlene feels better now .. Many thanks Andre ============================= From: email@example.com Subject: Re: 5eme essai Date: May 9, 2006 11:54:28 PM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Thanks for the reply. I will give you a call when I have some time to spare or in the evening. Encore une journee assez chargee. Bob =========================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Followup Date: May 27, 2006 7:35:22 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org Dear Andre I am writing to inquire about the status of the reimbursement of the 2300 Euros advance rent for the rue Baillule apartment. You had originally mentioned that it would take roughly one month for the reimbursement. In three days it will be one month since our 30 May arrival at the apartment and as of this morning the reimbursement has not been wired to my account. I checked our email records and neither my wife nor I have any contact information for the owner of the apartment other than the bank information to which the rent was wired, so you remain our only connection with him. Could you please check with the owner on the status of the reimbursement and let me know when I might expect the transfer? Thank you, Bob Gray ===================================== From: email@example.com Subject: RE: Followup Date: May 30, 2006 3:29:20 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hello sir, Paul Bernie nous a dit qu'il ferait le necessaire, Voici son Email email@example.com, n'hesitez pas a prendre contact avec lui Bien cordialement =========================================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Remboursement Date: May 30, 2006 10:50:59 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com M Paul Bernie firstname.lastname@example.org Cher M Bernie: Je vous ecrire pour vous demander de l'information sur le status du remboursement de 2300 Euros pour le loyer pour le 10, rue Bailliule, appartement. Andre-Regis Brue nous a dit originalement que le processus prendrait environs un moi, date limite qui est arrivee aujourd'hui. S'il vous plait, utilisez l'information de compte banquaire au dessous au lieue de cela que j'ai envoye a Andre (ceci est le compte duquel le transfert original a votre compte est venu). < > J'attend votre reponse. Merci pour votre aide. Robert M. Gray P.O. Box 160 La Honda, CA 94020 USA Begin forwarded message: From: "andre-regis brue" Date: May 30, 2006 3:29:20 AM PDT To: "'Robert M. Gray'" Subject: RE: Followup Hello sir, Paul Bernie nous a dit qu'il ferait le necessaire, Voici son Email email@example.com, n'hesitez pas a prendre contact avec lui Bien cordialement ============================ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: RE: Remboursement Date: May 31, 2006 12:32:08 AM PDT To: email@example.com hello ANDRE BRUE has never telephoned or e mailed us or faxed us with regard to his undertaking to you We informed PARISTAY that the new lift which had been working since january was not working in APRIL Please see the internet site where this is indicated in the BAILLEUL description This information should have been given to you by the person checking you in from PARISTAY The lift is not the owners responsability but the management company and the owner has no control over this unfortunately and we are sorry that this should have occured PARISTAY did not include in the contract that it was an absolute condition of rental and the lift is not included in the lease agreement We are absolutely appalled that he has has misled you and promised a refund as he has not even bothered to pick up the phone and again he says that I have said that we will faire the neccessaire which is a lie as this is not the case As the owners representatitive I have asked the owner to make a gesture but it will not be a total refund and they will come back to me The person checking you in should have informed you from PARISTAY I am extremely sorry for the situation that ANDRE has created but if he promised a refund you could take this up with PARISTAY and insist PARISTAY refunds you PARISTAY has no management contract or right to represent the owners in this matter whatsoever best regards PAUL ============================ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Fwd: Remboursement Date: May 31, 2006 7:46:22 AM PDT To: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com Dear Andre: The owner insists you were informed and that it is your responsibility. He only mentions the the lift being broken, he does not mention the other facts. In particular, the contract Article 8: Obligations du Bailleur begins with - a delivrer au locataire le logement en bon etat d'usage et de reparation ainsi que les equipements mentionnes au present contrat en bon etat de fonctionnement -the apartment was clearly not in a good state since my wife could not even reach the apartment, regardless of whether or not the elevator was specifically mentioned in the contract, -the advertisement for the building shows a key which indicates the building is high security, yet we found the building completely open with no one there, -the building was clearly in the midst of major reconstruction work. The owner refers to the mention of the broken elevator on the Web, but of course there was no mention of this when we rented the apartment (from him or from you) and we were never notified. We would have immediately cancelled the arrangement had we known. We find the advertisement for the apartment is still on your site (edited as noted, but with no mention of the lack of security or the construction). The owner suggests at best we will receive an unspecified fraction of the reimbursement, while we have already paid for wire fees as well as the upset and efforts necessary to find lodging upon arrival and the extra costs in rent. I am writing to you as agent for the apartment to again request your assistance in obtaining full reimbursement for the apartment. Clearly you and M Bernie are not in effective communication with each other and I am becoming alarmed at the lack of progress. My colleagues at L'Ecole Centrale have offered to help us seek our reimbursement if necessary and I am keeping them informed of the situation. I would greatly appreciate it if you would contact M Bernie as soon as possible and endeavor to resolve this matter quickly. Sincerely, R. M. Gray Begin forwarded message: ... =========================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Remboursement Date: May 31, 2006 9:52:31 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com Since you and Andre have different views of the history, I have asked himby email with a copy to you to discuss this directly with you. In support of his view I note that he was unaware that the elevator was nonfunctional when we arrived and that it was the discovery on our arrival that led to the caveat about the elevator not working being placed on the Paristay website. I also note that the website showed when we first viewed it (and still shows) the icon for an elevator, which is inaccurate as the elevator was (and remains) nonfunctional. I also note in support of Andre's view is the fact that the advertisement for the same apartment on the LODGIS website says nothing about the nonfunctional elevator and shows an elevator icon, indicating that there is an operational elevator. R.M. Gray ====================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Remboursement Date: May 31, 2006 11:19:58 AM PDT To: email@example.com Dear Mr Gray PARISTAY is entirely responsable for the contents of the offers and text they place on their own PARISTAY internet site as other sites are responsable for theirs which is logical and the case with LODGIS who were contacted last week Owners sign a Mandate de Recherche de LOCATAIRE The lift was installed working between December and April EDF according to the management company stopped the lift for a certificate requirement in APRIL EDF have now granted the certificate and the elevator is now working on a new test period The owner of the apartment informed PARISTAY immediately in good faith in APRIL and only PARISTAY can change the contents of their site and the information was therefore posted by PARISTAY in april not the owner or anyone else thereafter to suggest otherwise is simply not true PARISTAY prepared the contract and at no time asked the owner for a specific clause concerning special needs for the lift and presented this contract to the owner The lift is not a contractual obligation for the owner in any rental in PARIS as management is carried out by third parties which are the co propriete management company and owners are not liable for eqipment outside the apartment which relates to electrical appliances such as microwave etc... Lifts can sadly go wrong in any building and no lease guarantees tenants 100 % use of the lift When there are problems owners endeavour to inform rental agencies which was done but this does not affect the "jouissance" possesion of the apartment for the dates rented Once again the owner is sorry that the management company had not solved the problem with EDF before your arrival. The apartment was totally ready and blocked for your reservation and is exactly as published on PARISTAY. It is noted in the text by PARISTAY representative that the stairs are to be painted and are not finished.Security relates to DIGICODE on PARISTAY site for restricted access. PARISTAY are responsable for relations with their client and corresponding to the apartments they have. ANDRE BRUE undertook that you should be reimbursed and he should assume this It is deeply regretable that he should have promised this and substitute a promise with no legal right whatsoever and inform you untruthfully that the owner had agreed. He at no time contacted the owner concerning his own undertaking as DIRECTOR of PARISTAY.I suggest that you take this up with him directly as the AGENCY CONTRACT is between you and him concerning the PARISTAY site. The owner is deeply unhappy for you and that having informed PARISTAY in good faith re the lift despite the problem not under the owners control or responsability, that this was not communicated to you and that ANDRE has promised a refund without any communication whatsoever and in a position to be having to reply to these e mails and having to deal with your frustration at having been promised a refund by PARISTAY The agency contract is with you and PARISTAY concerning the PARISTAY information and site and client relations and needs their responsability in their "mandate de recherche de locataire". Once again I am deeply sorry for the situation regards PAUL =================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Fwd: Remboursement Date: June 4, 2006 3:16:46 PM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com Dear Andre I do not know if M Bernie copied you on his most recent message and I have not heard back from you since my email of 31 May. He continues to insist it is entirely your responsibility. I can only observe that both of you are involved as agent and owner and that no progress seems to be under way to resolve the issue. I am discussing the situation with my colleagues in Paris, including options for legal action, formal complaints, and publication of the details of our experience in an effort to spare others similar upset and similar significant financial loss. I would much prefer resolution without such expenditures of time and effort. I would very much appreciate it if you would make an effort to resolve the problem with M Bernie. I would also be grateful if you would send me his telephone number and postal address. Sincerely, R.M. Gray Begin forwarded message: ... ========================= From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Remboursement Date: June 4, 2006 5:06:50 PM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, Carrie@paristay.com Dear M Bernie You and Mr. Brue have given us contradictory versions of what happened and who knew what when, but from our vantage point it appears as if there is shared responsibility. The fact remains that the apartment was unusable, not as advertised, and that we were given no advance warning of the fact and that you were fully aware of the problem in April before our arrival. Andre returned the Agency fee of 532 Euros to us immediately while you have retained the full 2300 Euros rent paid in advance. You state that you had fully informed him of the problems with the elevator in April, he and his staff say you did not. We did not specifically include special needs in the contract because we believed in the good faith of the publicity which stated there was an elevator, in the Agency's assurance that there was an elevator, and in the contract stipulation that the apartment be "en bon etat d'usage et de reparations." An apartment advertised as having an elevator and requiring a hike of five flights is not in a good state of usage and repair. In addition to the elevator, the promised security was nonoperational the day we showed up. Contrary to your statement, the apartment was not as published by Paristay, it was unreachable and the building was insecure. I observe that you and my wife corresponded in February when you used the email address firstname.lastname@example.org, which means you had our information and could easily have informed us of the nonfunctional elevator in time for us to make alternative arrangements. This also suggests that you were originally part of the agency, and were so when we made our original reservations, and are now acting as agent for the owner separate from Paristay. I would appreciate the name, phone, and address of the owner of the apartment. I am also puzzled by the fact that you are listed as Sales Director of Apartment Rentals Paris at http://www.apartment-rentals-paris.com/contact.html with Andre listed as Director on a website displaying the date of Monday 5 June, which suggests that you are in closer contact with Andre than you have implied. Your remarks regarding the sorrow you and the owner feel for us are inconsistent with the fact that you could have easily warned us and prevented this entire incident. I am discussing the situation with my colleagues in Paris, including options for legal action, formal complaints, and publication of the details of our experience in an effort to spare others similar upset and similar significant financial loss. I would much prefer resolution without such expenditures of time and effort, but I think the history and your response to it should be known to anyone considering renting an apartment in Paris. Sincerely, R.M. Gray ===================================== From: email@example.com Subject: RE: Remboursement Date: June 5, 2006 12:55:33 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Monsieur Gray, Paul Bernie ne travaille plus dans la societe, et il est proprietaire de parts de cet appartement avec sa famille. J'ai donc enleve son appartement de notre site car son attitude ne correspond pas a nos exigences. Merci de me contacter par telephone au 06 63 78 95 95 Où de me dire a quel numero je peux vous joindre. Bien cordialement Andre ============================ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Remboursement Date: June 6, 2006 7:13:29 AM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, Carrie@paristay.com Dear Andre: I think at this point it is best if our communications are in writing, and perhaps your writing in French and my writing in English is the best way to ensure that our words reflect our meaning and that there is a record of what is said. It seems clear that Paul Bernie has no intension whatsoever to return our rent paid in advance to him and believes it is entirely Paristay's responsibility, even though it is now clear that he was with Paristay at the time we made our reservations and payments, that he knew about the problems of the aparatment, and that he told us nothing of those problems prior to our arrival. You have stated in the past that is entirely his responsibility. That is not the case given his past connections with Paristay and your position as leader of Paristay, it is also not consistent with his claim to have fully informed you. I will copy his correspondence to you so you can be aware of his position and again I ask you to contact him directly to try to work out some shared solution to the problem. Regards, Bob On Jun 5, 2006, at 12:55 AM, andre-regis brue wrote: ..... ============================ From: email@example.com Subject: RE: paristay Date: June 6, 2006 7:40:17 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Mr, My telephone number is 06 63 78 95 95 If you are still in Paris, please give me a phone call Regards andre ======================= From: email@example.com Subject: PARISTAY Date: June 24, 2006 5:43:53 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org, polo775001@YAHOO.FR Dear Mr Gray, I am wrting to you as representative of the apartment once again as I have no news from you. I have not heard back from you since I suggested that you ask ANDRE BRUE from PARISTAY to honour his own engagement to you, to reimburse you with regard to the rent, a promise he made that you confirmed in writing by e mail . ANDRE BRUE has mentioned in his e mail to you posted on the internet by yourself that I no longer work for the company This information was given to you JUNE 5 I feel able to explain that my last effective day with the company was the 20 th APRIL 2006 - 10 days before your arrival and I am in legal proceedings against the company at this time which is why I was advised not to discuss this and indeed was returning your e mail as the owners representative ____________________________________________________________________ From: email@example.com Subject: RE: Remboursement Date: June 5, 2006 12:55:33 AM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Monsieur Gray, Paul Bernie ne travaille plus dans la sociŽtŽ, et il est propriŽtaire de parts de cet appartement avec sa famille. J'ai donc enlevŽ son appartement de notre site car son attitude ne correspond pas ˆ nos exigences. Merci de me contacter par tŽlŽphone au 06 63 78 95 95 O de me dire ˆ quel numŽro je peux vous joindre. Bien cordialement AndrŽ __________________________________________________________________ ANDRE BRUE and PARISTAY were aware of the temporary problem with the lift from early april when the information was added to on the website and categorically before my departure 10 days ( the last day feasable for access to the text on line) before your arrival on APRIL 30TH after having been notified by the previous PARISTAY tenant by e mail This was confirmed by the tenants you refer to having met that temporary problem whilst waiting for EDF had been going on at least for three weeks which coroborates my insistence that the site was changed immediatley that the owner and PARISTAY were informed. PARISTAY confirmed your arrival CHECK IN by e mail but did not inform you of the situation with the lift. PARISTAY WAS AWARE and the problem on there site and I printed off the apartment description published on the site before the apartment was removed that shows this I have a tiny one % share in the apartment and am the representative that signed the mandate with PARISTAY.This mandate was terminated by PARISTAY without following the notice period or procedure as stipulated within the terms of the mandate along with two other apartments for the simple reason " J'ai donc enlevŽ son appartement de notre site car son attitude ne correspondpas ˆ nos exigences" Exigeances here in English means standards / proffessionalism Once again PARISTAY was informed immediately of the problem with the lift early APRIL and ALONE responsable for their site and your check in and stay.I cannot explain why PARISTAY should not have informed you as they were entirely responsable for the booking and as you mention to ANDRE BRUE e mail from you " I checked our email records and neither my wife nor I have any contact information for the owner of the apartment other than the bank information to which the rent was wired, so you remain our only connection with him." For what motive ANDRE BRUE promised you himself the refund of the rent without power of attorney or management contract and contrary to the SOCAF licence held by PARISTAY and without even asking the owner I do not know .I will leave you to evaluate the attitude, standards or professionalism here or "exigeances".We will now have revenue loss the time to get new bookings as until we put the apartment on LODGIS we had no other agencies apart from PARISTAY.As owners we are consulting lawyers with regard to this matter and will file an official complaint to the SOCAF 26 Avenue Suffren, 75001, PARIS the license regulators for PARISTAY I spent two very happy years at PARISTAY till 20th april with many wonderful people like yourselves wanting a great stay and PARISTAY clients were very happy which you will find if you click on "thank you paul paristay on google" PARISTAY has fantastic owners and great appartments. Sadly this was not the case with your particular PARISTAY booking and arrival after my departure from PARISTAY and I am sincerley sorry for you and your family.We are a family too and concerning this isolated incident feel very let down as indeed yourselves. We sadly did not meet and I can understand your frustation and perhaps you can understand that since 20 th APRIL I had no way of contacting you and can understand that I am not only without a job but now without steady revenues from two family apartments and one studio belonging to myself now prejudiced, all because of your incident with PARISTAY who were responsable for all correspondance and your booking and your check in and who did not inform you of the situation with the lift We promised the previous tenant who actually notified PARISTAY of the lift problem 500 euros as a kind gesture as we were not aware before her arrival and had not informed PARISTAY even though we have no liability regarding the lift run by the management company or PARISTAY who were aware of the problem prior to your arrival but failed in their duty to inform you. We would like to do the same for you as indeed we had no idea EDF would take so long to make the intervention needed and regret PARISTAY failure to let you know and are sincere.Please can you send the full bank details directly by e mail as I dont have all the e mails you sent and I am still waiting from PARISTAY to send me the previous tenants full bank details which I dont have I dont personally believe its fair on PARISTAY who have great people still working for them to have published what you have on line with regard to this one single isolated mistake of not letting you know despite being informed and the unfortunate timing of your arrival after my departure and it seems unfair that you make personal comments and assumptions with regard to me I can only advise you to contact the SOCAF as I believe that the there is an insurance scheme for agency members which might apply to PARISTAY and you and this would be a constructive way for your frustration which is understandable or simply ask ANDRE to make a gesture concerning his own promise to you. best regards PAUL _________________________________________ From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: PARISTAY Date: June 25, 2006 6:37:59 PM PDT To: email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org From: email@example.com Subject: Re: PARISTAY Date: June 25, 2006 6:37:59 PM PDT To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com Dear M. Bernie You have had no news from me because your email of 6 June provided no sound reason for me to respond as you continued to to refuse all responsibility and to place all the blame on Andre and Paristay in spite of the fact that they deny being aware of the nonfunctioning elevator and security system and the fact that you, not they, received and retain our 2300 Euros and they returned the 532 Euro agency fee. It is also clear that you knew of the problem well in advance of our arrival while you were still associated with Paristay and made no effort to contact us. I continue to hold you and Paristay jointly responsible for the events that occurred. I hope to make as many others as I can aware of the history of the case and your attitude. As you raise many issues, I will respond to them in turn: 1) Paristay has made what you call a ``gesture,'' they returned the money in their possession while we were still in Paris. 2) You were our original contact at Paristay, you made the original suggestion of the Bailleul apartment, and we made our original arrangements through you. You were aware of the problems well in advance of our arrival, you state you knew of the elevator problem in early April, which was well before your departure from Paristay. Yet you made no attempt whatever to warn us and we have only your word that you warned Andre and others at Paristay. You had our email address from the beginning in early February, so I do not understand your claim that you had no way of contacting us following your 20 April departure from Paristay. You certainly could have contacted us before that time if you were aware of the problems in early April as you have stated. A simple email notice that the elevator was non-functional would have caused us to cancel immediately and initiate a search for an alternative by Web from Turkey and through my colleagues in Paris. We cancelled as soon as we were aware of the unavailability of an elevator. That unavailability meant my wife could not reach the apartment, so we withdrew from a contract that had not been fulfilled. 3) I am not involved with your legal proceedings with Paristay, I am involved with you as a representative for the Bailleul apartment from the time we first arranged for the apartment and paid in advance to the present time. Even though you had severed your relationship with Paristay 10 days before our arrival, you maintained your position as ``representative of the apartment'' and still do. Yet you made no attempt to inform us of the nonfunctioning of two primary advertised aspects of the apartment. Following our arrival and inability to reach the apartment, you have refused all responsibility and not reimbursed us for the advance rent paid in good faith for the apartment as it was advertised. That rent was paid to the owner, whose representative you say you are (and you are part of the group that constitutes the owner), the contract was not fulfilled by the owner. We came to Paris following three weeks traveling in Turkey. We did not track the Website during that time and had no reason to, I have no idea when and if changes were made to the Website following our departure from California. We were available constantly by email, but received no notice from you or Paristay. Prior to our arrival we had no reason whatsoever to suspect there might be a problem. 4) You continually state that Paristay was aware of the problem and had been informed by you. They denied any knowledge of the problem when we arrived at the apartment and later at their office. This is your word against theirs and we have no way of determining who is not telling the truth past observing that they returned our funds in their possession and you have not done so. 5) You state that ``until we put the apartment on LODGIS we had no other agencies apart from PARISTAY,'' yet in the email of February 9 you state that Paristay had a non-exclusive contract for the Bailleul apartment. 6) Perhaps most astonishing is your statement that ``We promised the previous tenant who actually notified PARISTAY of the lift problem 500 euros'' while you made no effort whatsoever to warn the next tenants, us! Yet you then go on to say it is all Paristay's fault for not warning us. A 500 Euro rent reduction would not have been of any help to us, my wife could not and can not climb four flights of stairs. My wife's attitude is that we are indeed due 500 euros for our inconvenience and added expense, but that this would be in addition to the 2300 Euros of ours that you now hold. 7) Your next statement is ``We would like to do the same for you as indeed we had no idea EDF would take so long to make the intervention needed and regret PARISTAY failure to let you know and are sincere.Please can you send the full bank details directly by e mail as I dont have all the e mails you sent and I am still waiting from PARISTAY to send me the previous tenants full bank details which I dont have'' This seems intended to ask us to settle in lieu of the full 2300 Euro advance rent you collected from us for the same 500 Euros you paid the previous tenant for the same problem. But they were able to use the apartment, while we could not even reach the apartment. Your offer is disingenuous given you already had all of our banking information in late May and could easily have done this already as a ``gesture'' such as you continually speak of. 8) I have put this incident on line because I have no other recourse given your intransigeance with regards to reimbursement. Paristay shares the blame, but they do not have it all as you suggest. My wife and I hope to inform others who wish to rent apartments in Paris of our experience and the possible risks entailed. I suspect few realize that owners and their agents might not accept responsibility for nonfunctioning advertised assets without special clauses in the contracts specifically referring to those assets, and that agencies, representatives, and owners can blame each other and refuse reimbursement of significant advance rent as a result. If we are to suffer such a loss and all that accompanied it, we certainly will do our best to warn others against such possibilities. We do intend to follow through with formal complaints based on the advice of Parisian colleagues and we will include your side of the story in the emails posted on the Web while letting people judge for themselves if they wish to deal with you or not. I make no comments or assumptions save those based on our personal experiences and the resulting email. Yours sincerely, R.M. Gray ===================================== From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: RE : Re: PARISTAY Date: June 25, 2006 9:49:27 PM PDT To: email@example.com, polo775001@YAHOO.FR Dear Mr Gray, Hello, I dont agree with your analysis and holding me or my family as owners responasble as this is not a fair point of view let me explain 1) Andre did not make a "gesture" to you, but as I understand it PARISTAY paid you the full sum of agency fees being totally responsable for your reservation and all and every single communication with you which is logical as they knew the lift was not working PLS FIND THESE WORDS FROM YOUR E MAIL : posted by you on the website Andre, I checked our email records and neither my wife nor I have any contact information for the owner of the apartment other than the bank information to which the rent was wired, so you remain our only connection with him. Could you please check with the owner on the status of the reimbursement and let me know when I might expect the transfer? Thank you, Bob Gray ===================================== The only connection you had was with PARISTAY and PARISTAY was informed by previous tenant with regard to the lift problem and the owner contacted the management company immediately and informed PARISTAY that the management company was doing its best to resolve the problem quickly as possible 2 ) I never at any time received any contact information on a personal e mail from you as the owners represenatitive as PARISTAY was totally responsable for your booking and PARISTAY refused all access to information on my last day of april 20th and I had no access to the company e mails and had no reason either to believe that the PARISTAY contact Carrie checking you in had not informed you of the problem. Andre Brue at no time contacted the owner with regard to his own promise of rent reimbursement and I have tried to be helpful with you and suggest writing to the SOCAF as they have an insurance scheme and as PARISTAY is a member as I understand it that could work for you and it is worth checking as a solution for you Re your no 4 ) Once again PARISTAY was informed of the lift problem - This is a statement of fact - The problem was published on the PARISTAY site in april and I cannot understand why you would insist otherwise.It is impossible that anyone could have altered the site from outside PARISTAY and PARISTAY having originally denied all knowledge of knowing that there was a problem would hardly post that knowledge at a later date in all common sense and logic They made an unfortunate mistake and forget to tell you which has been very trying for all concerned which I explained in my last e mail but I and we are in no way responsable for PARISTAY If the PARISTAY check in team had told you and you had then communicated to them that without a lift in working order you would need another apartment then they would have tried to find you another apartment and we would have reimbursed you in full if PARISTAY had found us another tenant for the period as the booking was not refundable as was the case with the hotel booking mentioned in you e mail 5 ) it was a non exclusive manadate but during my employment at PARISTAY there was other agency as PARISTAY service worked very well with great tenants and no problems It was on my departure from PARISTAY and us being happy with the problems from your booking that we opted to exercise the right to an alternative agency as the mandate was non exclusive as mentioned so your statement is not correct Once again I am not a legal specialist concerning your publishing private e mails and some of the subjectivity of your comments on line and I dont believe its fair of you re PARISTAY who have great system and superb apartments and owners and apart from the mistake of not informing you of the lift have provided an excellent and friendly service to us as owners and we have had very very satisfied tenants who had a fantastic time in PARIS I hope constructively that the SOCAF insurance may be of help or Andre can put right the fact that PARISTAY did not inform you of the lift situation and honour his promise of re imbursing you which he made to you best regards PAUL =======================